As a small business owner, I know for a fact that the opportunity/budget to hire ANYONE is a GOOD thing, especially in this economic climate. Clearly, Stage Two is doing the right things and is growing.

If anyone thinks they can infer anything more about Stage Two, or Jeremy for that matter, from the posting that was made, then you are reading too much into things or are possibly making some huge assumptions.

It’s really quite simple:

For those who feel this type of position is beneath them, or the pay isn’t appropriate, I encourage you to move on, there is nothing to see here. Why piss on something that might be appealing to someone else? Is there some joy in that for you?

If you are the type that fits the profile described in his posting, and the pay seems reasonable to you, then I encourage you to apply for the position. I can assure you that those who are part of Stage Two during the “building years” will certainly benefit from their longer term success.

Having crossed paths with Jeremy several times over the past four years, I can vouch for his integrity, the spirit of his vision, and his intelligence. He is who he says he is. There is no reason to doubt his intentions or desire to do the right thing.

re “take pride in thinking its so different from In-and-out” – let’s be real here. even if the wage was 100% exactly the same, there’s a huge difference between working fast food and working in an office. especially one that has the opportunity to get someone much further ahead in life. a recent employee of ours went from an in-house position prior to us to end up as the head of marketing for a well-known startup. also, nobody leaves here smelling of beef grease at the end of the day. so yes, i take pride in my work environment.

re “juicing people” – okay, let’s get very constructive. i have a budget, it’s less than $30K. my options as I see them:
A create an entry-level role with growth opportunity
B keep the money in the bank
C spread the money out amongst existing employees
D buy a lot of really nice hats

which would you pick? tell me what I should do…

To clarify my point here Ill try my best and use non-attack language and return to a constructive discussion. I can state that once upon a time, back when someones parents walked 10 miles barefoot in the snow, a high school diploma or a trade got you a job and you could live off from that wage. Employers trained or apprenticed their employees at this time, now that’s outsourced to universities. Subsequently this is why the university system in most of the world is sub par now. Its not about academics anymore its about training for a mundane job like this one and everyone and anyone has to attend college to get jobs a monkey could do. Or jobs that most individuals could do if they dropped out of school at 14. Or am I wrong? Is there some requirement for a massive IQ in order to lend a hand to your enterprise?

A young person gets to pay for training in the form of college tuition and now when you actually get to a job your met with this type of wage which doesn’t merit the money invested in training. My guess is your not likely to hire a high school graduate and that you have a list to pick from that includes collage graduates. This is not a new idea and is well documented for those interested, see Netflix and PBS for a starter.

Just out of curiosity for everyone that thinks its an awesome opportunity to continually pay to work like this where should the cap for this trend be? That is how many years should I prove myself in order to get a career and not a job, to own some form of a finished product? Its not a privilege to be forced to trade your time on this planet in order to just survive so that someone else can reap the benefits of hard work.

Now Jeremy, don’t go thinking I blame you for this dynamic fashioned by capitalism and its inherent need to “juice” people. Again, I’m just pointing out the reality of your illusion that your not doing the same thing as a burger joint.

Furthermore, a spin off of this discussion was that I didn’t particularly think it was awesome that you indirectly allowed for commentary that claims poverty and homelessness make SF a diverse city, and yet claim Ive said much worse. Hmmm, poverty is great or this wage your offering is sub par? I’m not sure which is worse.

I know the contemporary trend is for everyone to be completely transparent and that this should be linked to my social networking sites and be visible for my mom to see and chastise me for. However, I would most certainly write and stand for what Ive said here because I am a successful academic who has already written and published papers concerning this type of material or theory. Last time I checked Joe McCarthy is dead and unless your gonna meet me at an academic symposium I doubt it would “haunt or hurt me” for writing whimsically opinionated posts at 1 in the morning about your job posting. Posts that are loosely related to well thought out material and ideas pertaining to social theory and capitalism I’m already professionally documented for.

Your just unlucky my wife was searching for a new job and sent this my way and asked the simple question on how anyone could live off from that wage in this city. Not to mention she is a Swede and has in the case of serious illness a country with free health insurance to return to, so she didn’t fall for the carrot dangled in the form of bennies. Oh, jeez might be a 401k in it though, that is if I hadnt read the latest issue of time that makes it possible for even the most un-educated of us to understand its just a another ploy to milk us.

And yes it would be great if everyone made that kind of money for nothing and could support themselves so that this country was a happier/safer/more inspiring/and any other utopian superlative you care for place. So that the halls of academia are free for thinking and not an extension of high school. This would be a negative thing because why? Because you couldn’t juice anyone or be juiced? Horrible thing that, progress and social evolution. Terrible thing that Ted Turner would only own half of Montana.

I know what you are all thinking, how i the hell would anyone construct and identity then when there is no other in the form of a homeless person and well kitted out geezer in a DG suit? How would anyone tell the difference from me and you? I hear its re-occurring a nightmare that haunts Glen Beck at night.

-A

re: “people spend more and more time in the state of proving themselves in order to make decent money and get on with their lives” – i’m not sure what to say about that. I’m not forcing anyone to work for me, they are welcome to apply to any job they can find. Or do you feel someone with a college degree and zero work experience is more entitled to a senior position with huge perks and a big salary?

re: “what type of life people in this wage group will live in SF” – I actually resent this comment. I lived a year of my life AFTER college with an income of under 15K. My wife as a pastry chef lived in NYC with a ~20K salary (no benefits). Why? We both wanted to get ahead in this world, and were willing to pay our dues to get there. Yeah, it’s a hard living, but the world’s a tough place. I meet a lot of people who are just trying to get their feet in the door just to make it somewhere in life. And per the earlier thread, unlike an in-and-out burger, someone who spends even a year here is going to either get a raise or be able to find an even better job down the road.

re: “try and dress it up into something its not” – Actually, I did no such thing. I believe I’ve been completely honest and upfront about the entire role. I’ve set expectations completely clearly as to what the job entails and the compensation. There is no “bait and switch” and there is no glorifying here.

re: “anonymity” – no, your logic is pretty far off (again). It’s simply because you wouldn’t write the things you write if you thought they could come back to haunt you either personally or professionally. I think I’ve been pretty open to discussing the issue and taking the criticism on the chin, but you instead use insults and attack language to try to “win” your point. And that point is, if I’m not mistaken, “everybody deserves to make at least $47K per year salary regardless of their experience, the position, or the budget.”

You let someone like Lacey make a comment that basically states that homelessness or poverty is a positive form of diversity that makes this city worth living in and then censor my attempt, as sarcastic as it was, to point this out. Sorry, I didn’t think my point would get across to an individual with that type of limited observational skill set at any rate and thus I over did the point. Apologies for that, but your quite ignorant and yes inadequate at your job if you allow that comment simply because its positive towards your side. Something tells me if people realized the logic of this it would not be favorable PR.

Not to mention my other points in that post, you so very kindly censored, that it is true that people spend more and more time in the state of proving themselves in order to make decent money and get on with their lives. I don’t think a company like yours should benefit from their better years, no one should, thats just my personal opinion. I also think this is intelligent debate.

Again no one, even you has addressed an honest number crunch and comparison to what type of life people in this wage group will live in SF. Your Johnny on the spot with the craigslist run down but take the salaries low end and see how far that will get you.Your job offer like a lot of these desperate people have said is certainly better then others but your mistake was to try and dress it up into something its not. That’s the cause for what you probably see as my antics.

I really don’t know what anonymity has to do with anything. Am I supposed to give you my real name and social so you can hunt me down or schedule a duel during recess? What does my real name or transparency prove? Perhaps with a CV you can feel better that your above me in the pecking order and thus dismiss my comments as being part of the proletariat? I assure you my credentials are sound otherwise Id be knocking down your door for that fantastic job.

That’s really all I have to say further on this matter. So good luck, and good night.

Wish me luck!

:)

At the beginning, when they questioned the package, I was quick to engage with them. I believe I’ve been completely upfront about the role and our approach to compensation. Now, however, they aren’t really debating, they aren’t adding new links to show other options, they are basically just continually accusing me of taking advantage of people. This is not a rational debate, and I don’t believe I am furthering any kind of discussion.

So what is left to handle? I’ve been diplomatic, I’ve given the olive branch, I’ve engaged with the naysayers. But they don’t really want the debate, they just want to be right, at all costs, with no intelligent discussion. And when they get offensive to other readers, then I believe it is the right move to stop things from getting more hostile.